Comments on: Top 15 Worst NFL Hall of Fame Members http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/ Sports, TV, Music & Movies Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:53:00 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-13143 Kiya Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:53:00 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-13143 you are probably correct as after this list was posted, Casper gave me the most trouble justifying. I am not sure he belonged but am too busy to correct the mistake at this point LOL you are probably correct as after this list was posted, Casper gave me the most trouble justifying. I am not sure he belonged but am too busy to correct the mistake at this point LOL

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-13144 Kiya Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:51:00 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-13144 The problem with this argument is that a lot of people feel the one criteria for worthiness is "Can you tell the story of the game without them?" I would venture to say that most of the guys you listed would not be necessary in the annals of the history of the game to make mention of. That is my problem with guys like Wehrli and Wright. No one cares. And to be honest I am pretty strict as I believe it is the elite of the elite that should be their. It is not the Hall of notables. Would you put any of the guys you mentioned in the top ten all time at their positions? Not likely. The problem with this argument is that a lot of people feel the one criteria for worthiness is “Can you tell the story of the game without them?” I would venture to say that most of the guys you listed would not be necessary in the annals of the history of the game to make mention of. That is my problem with guys like Wehrli and Wright. No one cares. And to be honest I am pretty strict as I believe it is the elite of the elite that should be their. It is not the Hall of notables. Would you put any of the guys you mentioned in the top ten all time at their positions? Not likely.

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-13107 Kiya Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:19:00 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-13107 Well said. Your arguments are strong. I am still baffled though as to why it took so long for Wehrli to get in then. John Madden would not be in if not for his commentating career and Hampton is just not one of those guys that the story of the league could be told without. But overall I like your arguments, clear concise and intelligent. Well said. Your arguments are strong. I am still baffled though as to why it took so long for Wehrli to get in then. John Madden would not be in if not for his commentating career and Hampton is just not one of those guys that the story of the league could be told without. But overall I like your arguments, clear concise and intelligent.

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-13031 Kiya Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:29:00 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-13031 I agree with you but I don't think every year they have to select someone. It gets pretty thin when they select certain guys. And I would say if I had a vote I would not select anyone of the guys you mentioned except for Stabler. I agree with you but I don’t think every year they have to select someone. It gets pretty thin when they select certain guys. And I would say if I had a vote I would not select anyone of the guys you mentioned except for Stabler.

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12584 Kiya Tue, 15 Jun 2010 01:29:35 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12584 I agree with you but I don't think every year they have to select someone. It gets pretty thin when they select certain guys. And I would say if I had a vote I would not select anyone of the guys you mentioned except for Stabler. I agree with you but I don't think every year they have to select someone. It gets pretty thin when they select certain guys. And I would say if I had a vote I would not select anyone of the guys you mentioned except for Stabler.

]]> By: truefan http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12583 truefan Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:43:24 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12583 I have to ask you this: If the players I mentioned were already selected would any of them be on your list of the worst 15? We have to remember and agree as previouly mentioned that the process is flawed to where there are some very questionable selections and this same process has omitted some who should be in the hall. The veterans committee can hopefully correct the ommissons from the past. Too many selections are made by delegates who are more fan of a particular team or player that cloud their judgement on their selection. How else can you understand the selection of Doak Walker who only played for 6 years in the league and never had any remarkeble achievements during his career. I have to ask you this: If the players I mentioned were already selected would any of them be on your list of the worst 15? We have to remember and agree as previouly mentioned that the process is flawed to where there are some very questionable selections and this same process has omitted some who should be in the hall. The veterans committee can hopefully correct the ommissons from the past. Too many selections are made by delegates who are more fan of a particular team or player that cloud their judgement on their selection. How else can you understand the selection of Doak Walker who only played for 6 years in the league and never had any remarkeble achievements during his career.

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12577 Kiya Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:06:49 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12577 I agree with you about players being omitted,(the biggest examples are Dave Krieg and Archie Manning guys that transcended their teams but played for such crap it doesnt get them considered. The ones you named do not effect the history of the game. Guys like Cris Carter, Richard Dent, Andre Reed and Stabler are part of the history. The others were parts that were not greater than the whole. I agree with you about players being omitted,(the biggest examples are Dave Krieg and Archie Manning guys that transcended their teams but played for such crap it doesnt get them considered. The ones you named do not effect the history of the game. Guys like Cris Carter, Richard Dent, Andre Reed and Stabler are part of the history. The others were parts that were not greater than the whole.

]]> By: truefan http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12576 truefan Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:26:28 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12576 So I can assume that you don't believe a player who was a super bowl mvp for a losing team and a factor in another and was ever bit as good an outside linebacker as many who are in the hall who also played in the same era dosen't belong with his peers. The two guards I listed were the reason that the Packers won so many championships in the sixties with their overpowering running game, Mike Curtis was as good a middle linebacker as Joe Schmidt or Sam Huff who are both in and John Brodie was the best QB to never win a championship because of the teams he played on were never of that caliber. My reasoning is that some payers are omitted due to who they played for and not because of their talent. So I can assume that you don't believe a player who was a super bowl mvp for a losing team and a factor in another and was ever bit as good an outside linebacker as many who are in the hall who also played in the same era dosen't belong with his peers. The two guards I listed were the reason that the Packers won so many championships in the sixties with their overpowering running game, Mike Curtis was as good a middle linebacker as Joe Schmidt or Sam Huff who are both in and John Brodie was the best QB to never win a championship because of the teams he played on were never of that caliber. My reasoning is that some payers are omitted due to who they played for and not because of their talent.

]]> By: Kiya http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12575 Kiya Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:11:14 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12575 First off thanks for the excellent and well thought out comment. <br><br>If I wasn't clear then forgive me, but I believe in the selections that were made prior to the Hall opening and wish they had allowed everyone who qualified to be inducted when it opened. I have a problem with guys who played in the 70s, didn't get elected in their eligibility and then get elected later i.e. Roger Wehrli, Benny Friedmann, Marshall Goldberg. These were guys who didn't make it despite being eligible for years. <br><br>Thanks for the support on stats, while it isn't everything it definitely tells a story. Swann was not an elite player, just lucky to be on the Steelers, anyone with a half pint talent could have put up his numbers on those teams. <br><br>Not sure if I would put in the guys you suggested as most voters ask the question "Could you tell the story of football without them?" and most of those you could. Mike Webster is actually in the Hall and Stabler probably should be, but the rest I would decline. <br><br>Thanks again. First off thanks for the excellent and well thought out comment.

If I wasn't clear then forgive me, but I believe in the selections that were made prior to the Hall opening and wish they had allowed everyone who qualified to be inducted when it opened. I have a problem with guys who played in the 70s, didn't get elected in their eligibility and then get elected later i.e. Roger Wehrli, Benny Friedmann, Marshall Goldberg. These were guys who didn't make it despite being eligible for years.

Thanks for the support on stats, while it isn't everything it definitely tells a story. Swann was not an elite player, just lucky to be on the Steelers, anyone with a half pint talent could have put up his numbers on those teams.

Not sure if I would put in the guys you suggested as most voters ask the question “Could you tell the story of football without them?” and most of those you could. Mike Webster is actually in the Hall and Stabler probably should be, but the rest I would decline.

Thanks again.

]]> By: truefan http://thepulplist.com/2009/09/the-top-15-worst-nfl-hall-of-fame-members/comment-page-2/#comment-12574 truefan Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:43:58 +0000 http://thepulplist.com/?p=541#comment-12574 I want to address the veterns comittee coment first: The Hall was not established until 1963 some 43 years after the NFL was formed and for the first few years of the selection process included many players, coaches, and team officals who were involved with substaining and the growth of the league in it's first 20 or 30 years of existance so a veterns comittee had to come into existence to honor their contributions to the sport. Names like Bert Bell who was the major organizer of the nfl draft, Red Grange who helped put the league on the noteriety map, Sammy Baugh who's style of play changed the offensive outlook of the league and dont forget he was a great punter and defensive back, and Curly Lambeau a long time player and coach. Without a veterns comittee many inductees who are in the hall and deserve to be wouldn't be there without this comittee. Next, I read many comments about stats and should not be a factor for induction. Too many good players don't have the opportunity to play on championship teams but they still are good enough and compile enough stats that they earn the priviledge to be inducted. Don't even try to tell a true football fan that Barry Saunders should not be in the hall. Warren Moon, Steve Largent, Sonny Jurgensen, Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, Gale Sayers and Leroy Selmon are just a few players who never played in a super bowl but are and should be in the hall and stats back it up. True enough there are some questionable selections that have been made and there are some who are not in who should be: LB Chuck Howley, LB Mike Curtis, G Jerry Kramer, G Fuzzy Thurston, C Mike Webster, QB John Brodie, C Dave Dalby, and QB Ken Stabler. All of these players and mostly likely a number of others who have made contributions over and above others who are in the hall. I agree with some of the names listed as people who shouldn't be in the hall and could add some names to the list but it is a moot point, they are in and I believe a greater effort should be made to honor those who have been neglected. I want to address the veterns comittee coment first: The Hall was not established until 1963 some 43 years after the NFL was formed and for the first few years of the selection process included many players, coaches, and team officals who were involved with substaining and the growth of the league in it's first 20 or 30 years of existance so a veterns comittee had to come into existence to honor their contributions to the sport. Names like Bert Bell who was the major organizer of the nfl draft, Red Grange who helped put the league on the noteriety map, Sammy Baugh who's style of play changed the offensive outlook of the league and dont forget he was a great punter and defensive back, and Curly Lambeau a long time player and coach. Without a veterns comittee many inductees who are in the hall and deserve to be wouldn't be there without this comittee. Next, I read many comments about stats and should not be a factor for induction. Too many good players don't have the opportunity to play on championship teams but they still are good enough and compile enough stats that they earn the priviledge to be inducted. Don't even try to tell a true football fan that Barry Saunders should not be in the hall. Warren Moon, Steve Largent, Sonny Jurgensen, Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, Gale Sayers and Leroy Selmon are just a few players who never played in a super bowl but are and should be in the hall and stats back it up. True enough there are some questionable selections that have been made and there are some who are not in who should be: LB Chuck Howley, LB Mike Curtis, G Jerry Kramer, G Fuzzy Thurston, C Mike Webster, QB John Brodie, C Dave Dalby, and QB Ken Stabler. All of these players and mostly likely a number of others who have made contributions over and above others who are in the hall. I agree with some of the names listed as people who shouldn't be in the hall and could add some names to the list but it is a moot point, they are in and I believe a greater effort should be made to honor those who have been neglected.

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